Discussion:
Look, Hillary Clinton's poor victims! They used to go to Libya to make a living. Now their destination is faraway Europe, if they want to get out of poverty - a rare BBC News admission of one of many neocon war crimes
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lo yeeOn
2015-12-06 06:56:08 UTC
Permalink
Mourning the death of the 'messiah of Africa'
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35005828

When Muammar Gaddafi was toppled in 2011, there were scenes of
jubilation in Libya. But Jake Wallis Simons didn't have to go far in
Ghana to find those who have fond memories of the executed Libyan
leader, and are still mourning his loss.

One recent Sunday afternoon, amid the yellow dust, sunshine and
traffic fumes of Accra, I met a man who told me that Colonel Gaddafi
was the messiah.

The man's name was Karim Mohamed, an ebullient 45-year-old tailor who
had spent three years living and working in Libya before the fall of
Gaddafi.

He was married with three children, and lived in a six-bedroom house
that he had built himself using the money he had earned in Libya.

"In Libya, everybody was happy," he told me. "In America, there are
people sleeping under bridges. In Libya, never. There was no
discrimination, no problems, nothing. The work was good and so was the
money. My life is all thanks to Gaddafi. He was the messiah of
Africa."

Karim was far from unusual in this part of Ghana. As we talked, two
other men sauntered over to join the conversation, and turned out to
share his passion for the late Libyan dictator.

"Gaddafi was a nice guy," said Mustafa Abdel Momin, a cheerful,
35-year-old construction worker who had worked in Libya for seven
years. "He never cheated anybody. He was perfect. The best."

"What was the point of killing him?" added Eliyas Yahya, the local
imam, who had a round hat, a pointed beard and a very loud voice. "You
kill someone to solve the problem and now the problem is worse. Why
kill Gaddafi?"

Gaddafi may have been a ruthless autocrat, but for years the relative
affluence and stability of his rule was a godsend to migrants
desperate for work. My new friends were among the tens of thousands of
Africans who had used money earned in Libya to break themselves from
the cycle of poverty at home.

As we talked in the shade of a small grocery shop, the evidence was
all around us. This was a district in the north of the city known
locally as the Libyan Quarter, home to a community of Ghanaians who
had made their money under the Gaddafi regime.

The ramshackle houses that characterise many parts of Accra were
nowhere to be seen here. Instead there were modern, spacious
residences lining the orange dirt road, stretching into the distance.

Karim pointed out what I had thought was a municipal building on the
corner. As it turned out, it was actually a mansion belonging to a man
called Sheikh Swala, who had started several successful businesses
using money he had earned in Libya. The house had 30 bedrooms. And
without Gaddafi, it would never have been built.

Indeed, new construction was now a rarity in this neighbourhood. Here
and there, some houses were even lying unfinished - when Gaddafi was
deposed, the Libyan Quarter became frozen in time.

A diffident, 36-year-old man called Amadu joined our group. Nobody
noticed him at first, as he seemed so withdrawn. But eventually, he
told his story.

Amadu had been among those unable to afford a proper Libyan visa. In
2010, he and several friends made the dangerous journey there
overland, through the Sahara desert. They ran out of water and many of
his group died, but he made it to Libya and found work as a tiler.

By the time war broke out in 2011, he had saved $3,500 (2,300). He
remembers standing on the docks in Tripoli when the first shots were
fired, forcing him to run for cover. He was confined to his room for
several days before he managed to escape back to Ghana, but he was
unable to bring his hard-earned money with him. And that was how his
dreams had died.

"There is nothing for the youth here in Ghana," said Mustafa. "After
Gaddafi, we are full of crisis. Youth unemployment is sky-high and
there is nothing for us to do. Either we end up living a life of crime
because it is the only way to make money, or we try and make it to
Europe."

The others agreed. "Now it is Europe, Europe, Europe, wherever on
earth you go," said Eliyas loudly. "Some people are going to Brazil,
if they can afford it. But for everyone else, it's Europe."

Before Gaddafi was ousted, he officially warned the European Union
that if his regime were to collapse, as many as two million migrants
would arrive on Europe's shores, creating chaos.

He may have been more a dictator than a messiah. But he seems to have
been right about that.
lo yeeOn
2016-02-05 07:08:21 UTC
Permalink
with Gaddaffi gone ,
every Libyan is fighting over wealth , Gaz, land , cash , weapons,
oil , women , territory .
Libyans should have retained their old king
Do you really think that the Libyans are fighting over those things
you mentioned above? Or is it something more basic? In other words,
are they really so dumb and so different from us that they're willing
to readily lose their own lives and the lives of their loved ones for
much more frivolous things than lives themselves?

I suspect it is something more basic, more existential. For a typical
Libyan, it is probably all about considerations like whether his
family and he will still have a home tomorrow or whether strangers
will come and force them to leave for good.

By the way, if I understand you correctly, that old king is not
someone around whom enough Libyans would rally as their leader today.

Libya's Gaddafi, for all of his shortcomings, was the one best able to
unite Libya. And under the former semi-socialist government that he
was the leader of, Libya was one of the most, if not the most,
financially independent, peaceful, and socially equitable country in
Africa. Young adults, male and female, were able to go abroad for
graduate studies, if they were capable. Those who could not and also
could not get employment, were supported by a strong social welfare
system. The country had a sizable "sovereign fund" that was to be
used for backing up a gold-based currency system, until the West
violently destroyed the country.

So no wonder that Libya is now a failed state - but not because the
people suddenly became greedy for "land and gaz" as you claimed, nor
because they mindlessly rejected their old king.

In fact, do you know that the US is actively preparing for a land
invasion of Libya?

US-Russian marines set up bridgehead in E. Libya for campaign
against ISIS DEBKAfile Exclusive Report January 23, 2016, 6:25 PM (IDT)
http://www.debka.com/article/25183/US-Russian-marines-set-up-bridgehead-in-E-Libya-for-campaign-against-ISIS

President Barack Obama resolved earlier this month, much to the
surprise of Washington insiders, to open a third anti-terror front
in Libya to eradicate the Islamic Front's tightening grip on the
country.

This top-secret decision was first revealed by DEBKA Weekly 692 on
Jan. 1.

. . .

The West's narrative is that we are going into Libya to fight ISIS.

But 1) Who gave these foreign forces the permission to enter? It is
certainly not an operation many of the people of Libya are ready to
accept. According to a BBC report by Gabriel Gatehouse

fighters in Abugrein said they did not want to see Western boots
on the ground.

"We Libyans will fight. There is no need for foreign troops," said
Mr al-Bayoudi.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35486158

And 2) Who is to say that it's gonna be an easier job to handle than
to keep the insurgencies under control in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Finally, even if ISIS is a weaker enemy than the Taliban or Saddam's
soldiers, which is by no means necessarily the case, Obama hasn't
defeated ISIS after more than a year bombing them. And what makes us
think that sending boots into Libya would be more effective than just
bombing them?

See! All these unknowns are making people suspect that the fight
against ISIS will become another "trillion dollar war" (and that's
just the down payment). See the WND article appended below.

And you know it's not just Libya we are now reopening a front in. We
already have ground operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. And I am
pretty sure that the US, Turkey, and Saudi Arabia are also preparing a
ground operation in Syria. So, the US global military adventure does
not just go on and on; but it also multiplies. It's totally scary.
Our living standards will have no way to go but down, down, and down.

lo yeeOn

http://www.wnd.com/2016/01/generals-fear-benghazi-2-in-libya/

WASHINGTON - As Washington prepares to take "decisive military action"
in Libya against the alarming growth of ISIS, retired generals have
told G2 Bulletin they are concerned that the United States may go it
alone, according to a new report in Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

They ask which allies, if any, will join a coalition and attempt to
work with a Libyan government that barely exists.

At a news conference last week, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Marine
Gen. Joseph F. Dunford Jr. said the U.S. is "looking to take decisive
military action" against ISIS in Libya and that a decision would be
coming "in weeks" but "not hours".

"It's fair to say that we're looking to take decisive military action
against ISIS in conjunction with the political process" in Libya,
Dunford said. "The president has made clear that we have the
authority to use military force."

ISIS is thought to have more than 3,000 fighters, with more flowing
into Libya from Syria and Iraq, where the U.S., Russia and other
countries have been carrying out intense airstrikes against the
jihadist fighters.

Another `trillion-dollar' failure?

In October 2011, the U.S., France and Britain launched attacks that
led to the overthrow of the government of Libyan leader Muammar
Gadhafi. Since then, the country has not had a functional government.
Warring factions of local jihadist groups are preoccupied fighting
among themselves for dominance rather than taking on ISIS or coming
together to form a government of national accord.

U.S. action in Libya, retired U.S. Air Force Lt. Gen. Thomas McInerney
told G2Bulletin in an email, "is the last thing we need to do!"

Get the rest of this report, and others, at Joseph Farah's G2
Bulletin.

"Why spend (a trillion dollars) for another COIN (counterinsurgency)
failure?"

Retired U.S. Adm. James Lyons Jr., who served as commander of the
U.S. Pacific Fleet from 1985-1987, told G2Bulletin that McInerney's
concern about the possibility of unilateral U.S. action is "Spot on!"

Retired U.S. Army Maj. Gen. Paul E. Vallely expressed similar concerns
to G2Bulletin, concluding Dunford's comments represent a military
invasion by the Obama administration. "I can't even see Obama taking
any offensive action anywhere like that," Vallely said.

Vallely is chairman of the non-profit Stand Up America and the private
Citizens' Commission on Benghazi, which is looking into the Sept. 11,
2012, terrorist attack on the U.S. compound in Benghazi.

He said that if there is to be any such military action, it needs to
include Egypt, which bombed ISIS locations in Libya after the February
2015 beheading of some 21 Libyan Coptic Christians who were working in
the country.

Vallely also thought the Russians could join, especially if asked by
Egypt, since Moscow has just concluded a $2 billion military arms deal
with Cairo that includes helicopters, fighter jets, Kornet anti-tank
weapons, the anti-ballistic missile system Antey-2500 and the Buk-2
surface-to-air missile system.
Post by lo yeeOn
Mourning the death of the 'messiah of Africa'
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-35005828
When Muammar Gaddafi was toppled in 2011, there were scenes of
jubilation in Libya. But Jake Wallis Simons didn't have to go far in
Ghana to find those who have fond memories of the executed Libyan
leader, and are still mourning his loss.
One recent Sunday afternoon, amid the yellow dust, sunshine and
traffic fumes of Accra, I met a man who told me that Colonel Gaddafi
was the messiah.
The man's name was Karim Mohamed, an ebullient 45-year-old tailor who
had spent three years living and working in Libya before the fall of
Gaddafi.
He was married with three children, and lived in a six-bedroom house
that he had built himself using the money he had earned in Libya.
"In Libya, everybody was happy," he told me. "In America, there are
people sleeping under bridges. In Libya, never. There was no
discrimination, no problems, nothing. The work was good and so was the
money. My life is all thanks to Gaddafi. He was the messiah of
Africa."
Karim was far from unusual in this part of Ghana. As we talked, two
other men sauntered over to join the conversation, and turned out to
share his passion for the late Libyan dictator.
"Gaddafi was a nice guy," said Mustafa Abdel Momin, a cheerful,
35-year-old construction worker who had worked in Libya for seven
years. "He never cheated anybody. He was perfect. The best."
"What was the point of killing him?" added Eliyas Yahya, the local
imam, who had a round hat, a pointed beard and a very loud voice. "You
kill someone to solve the problem and now the problem is worse. Why
kill Gaddafi?"
Gaddafi may have been a ruthless autocrat, but for years the relative
affluence and stability of his rule was a godsend to migrants
desperate for work. My new friends were among the tens of thousands of
Africans who had used money earned in Libya to break themselves from
the cycle of poverty at home.
As we talked in the shade of a small grocery shop, the evidence was
all around us. This was a district in the north of the city known
locally as the Libyan Quarter, home to a community of Ghanaians who
had made their money under the Gaddafi regime.
The ramshackle houses that characterise many parts of Accra were
nowhere to be seen here. Instead there were modern, spacious
residences lining the orange dirt road, stretching into the distance.
Karim pointed out what I had thought was a municipal building on the
corner. As it turned out, it was actually a mansion belonging to a man
called Sheikh Swala, who had started several successful businesses
using money he had earned in Libya. The house had 30 bedrooms. And
without Gaddafi, it would never have been built.
Indeed, new construction was now a rarity in this neighbourhood. Here
and there, some houses were even lying unfinished - when Gaddafi was
deposed, the Libyan Quarter became frozen in time.
A diffident, 36-year-old man called Amadu joined our group. Nobody
noticed him at first, as he seemed so withdrawn. But eventually, he
told his story.
Amadu had been among those unable to afford a proper Libyan visa. In
2010, he and several friends made the dangerous journey there
overland, through the Sahara desert. They ran out of water and many of
his group died, but he made it to Libya and found work as a tiler.
By the time war broke out in 2011, he had saved $3,500 (2,300). He
remembers standing on the docks in Tripoli when the first shots were
fired, forcing him to run for cover. He was confined to his room for
several days before he managed to escape back to Ghana, but he was
unable to bring his hard-earned money with him. And that was how his
dreams had died.
"There is nothing for the youth here in Ghana," said Mustafa. "After
Gaddafi, we are full of crisis. Youth unemployment is sky-high and
there is nothing for us to do. Either we end up living a life of crime
because it is the only way to make money, or we try and make it to
Europe."
The others agreed. "Now it is Europe, Europe, Europe, wherever on
earth you go," said Eliyas loudly. "Some people are going to Brazil,
if they can afford it. But for everyone else, it's Europe."
Before Gaddafi was ousted, he officially warned the European Union
that if his regime were to collapse, as many as two million migrants
would arrive on Europe's shores, creating chaos.
He may have been more a dictator than a messiah. But he seems to have
been right about that.
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