Discussion:
Will the real hawk please stand down? NYT's Singer implies the American electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
(too old to reply)
lo yeeOn
2016-10-21 06:46:33 UTC
Permalink
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.

Reckless Hillary has too much personal grudge to work out to give
peace a chance.

And sadly, that's the nature of America's immediate future!

lo yeeOn

The Hawk on Russia Policy? Hillary Clinton, Not Donald Trump
By DAVID E. SANGER OCT. 20, 2016
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/21/us/hillary-clinton-david-sanger-putin-russia.html

WASHINGTON - Hillary Clinton made it abundantly clear Wednesday night
that if she defeats Donald J. Trump next month she will enter the
White House with the most contentious relationship with Russia of any
president in more than three decades, and with a visceral, personal
animus toward Vladimir V. Putin, its leader.

"We haven't seen a you-can't-trust-these-guys tone like this since the
days of Ronald Reagan," said Stephen Sestanovich, who served in
President Bill Clinton's State Department and is the author of
"Maximalist: America in the World from Truman to Obama". "But even
that was more a systemic criticism of the Soviet Union. This is
focused on Putin himself."

In a reversal of political roles, Mrs. Clinton, the Democratic
candidate, is the one portraying Mr. Putin as America's newest
archenemy, whose underlings hack into her Brooklyn campaign
headquarters, bomb Syrian civilians and threaten Ukraine and NATO
allies in Europe. For a woman who presented a big red "reset" button
to her Russian counterpart in March 2009 (with the word incorrectly
translated into Russian), the change in tone was more striking than
ever in her debate with Donald J. Trump.

She, and the Obama White House, insist they were on the right course
until Mr. Putin decided he had more to gain from reviving Cold War
tensions than from a quarter-century effort to integrate with the
West. Now, much of the Democratic foreign policy establishment has
become as hawkish as Mrs. Clinton on the subject of Russia, a view
that seems almost certain to outlast the campaign.

Privately, some of her longtime advisers are already thinking about
what mix of sanctions, diplomatic isolation and international
condemnation they might put together if they take office to deal with
Mr. Putin and the fragile economic state he runs, an update of the
"containment" strategy that George F. Kennan formulated for President
Harry S. Truman in 1947.

Equally surprising is the Republican reversal of tone. Only four years
ago, it was the Republican presidential nominee, Mitt Romney, who was
warning of the dangers of a revanchist Russia and President Obama who
said "the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back,"
noting that "the Cold War's been over for 20 years".

Most of the Republican Party remains firmly distrustful of Russia. But
not Mr. Trump, its standard-bearer. "If the United States got along
with Russia, wouldn't be so bad," he said Wednesday, uttering not a
word about Mr. Putin's land grabs.

. . .

For days, hacked emails from the Gmail account of John D. Podesta,
Mrs. Clinton's campaign chairman, have embarrassed her campaign, and
on Thursday, emails from an account Mr. Obama had during his 2008
transition surfaced for the first time. No one knows if the hacking
campaign is winding down or whether the revelations so far are simply
a prelude to something bigger between now and Election Day.

Mr. Obama is considering retaliation that, according to several senior
officials, could include attacks inside Russia that could expose
corruption among the leadership and embarrass Mr. Putin. It is not
clear whether Mr. Obama will choose that route, even after Vice
President Joseph R. Biden Jr. issued a threat last weekend that
Mr. Putin could get some of his own medicine.

But it is clear that if Mrs. Clinton wins, she will enter the White
House with a very personal grudge against Mr. Putin. He, in turn, has
long harbored a grudge against her for her statements in 2011 calling
into question the validity of a Russian parliamentary election.

It is possible, Mr. Sestanovich warned, that Mrs. Clinton and the
Obama administration are seeing Mr. Putin's direct hand in too many
events. He questioned how the director of national intelligence, James
R. Clapper Jr., would know for certain that the Kremlin leadership was
behind the hacking of the Democratic National Committee and the emails
of Mr. Podesta and Colin L. Powell, one of Mrs. Clinton's predecessors
as secretary of state. The United States has released none of its
evidence, so it is unclear if the conclusion was based on an educated
guess about Kremlin operations, an "implant" in Russian networks, or a
human spy or communications intercept. [Or a fabrication from the
government!]

About James R. Clapper Jr.:

Wyden: Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or
hundreds of millions of Americans?

Clapper: No sir.

Wyden: It does not?

Clapper: Not wittingly. There are cases where they could,
inadvertently collect, perhaps but not wittingly.

This was a lie. Many people believed it was a lie at the time, but
that was confirmed thanks to the documents leaked by Ed Snowden, who
later claimed that seeing that bit of testimony helped convince him
that he needed to go through with his plan to leak this information.

James Clapper, of course, is the Director of National Intelligence,
and the heads of the various intelligence agencies basically report
in to him. He's still in that job, which many people argue is a
complete travesty. He flat out lied to Congress and got away with
it.

What's been really odd is that the story as to why Clapper lied
seems to keep changing.
TT
2016-10-21 14:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
*skriptis
2016-10-21 15:13:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Nusrat Rizvi
2016-10-24 08:01:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
A megalomaniac has taken over Russia, a land that has made no progress
in the last 200 years. This nut job aka Valid Putin is interested in
enlarging Russia and cares little if older Russians are forced to make
a choice between buying food or medicine.
The economy unable to cope with the burden of military spending causes
the value of Ruble to drop everyday. It now stands close to 65 Rubles
to a US Dollar.
He has seen fit to get involved in Syria where majority of its citizen
have been driven out and the major city Aleppo is described by the UN
as a slaughterhouse.
To keep US at bay, Putin now brandishes his nuclear weapons and warns
the Americans of serious consequences if they got involved,
militarily.
*skriptis
2016-10-24 09:26:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
A megalomaniac has taken over Russia, a land that has made no progress
in the last 200 years. This nut job aka Valid Putin is interested in
enlarging Russia and cares little if older Russians are forced to make
a choice between buying food or medicine.
The economy unable to cope with the burden of military spending causes
the value of Ruble to drop everyday. It now stands close to 65 Rubles
to a US Dollar.
He has seen fit to get involved in Syria where majority of its citizen
have been driven out and the major city Aleppo is described by the UN
as a slaughterhouse.
To keep US at bay, Putin now brandishes his nuclear weapons and warns
the Americans of serious consequences if they got involved,
militarily.
Stupid post. I mean very stupid post. Russia made no progress in
the last 200 years?

I don't know which country you're from, but I guess if Russians
decided to stop supplying international space station, your
country will jump in? Flying to space, piece of cake.


And I am especially amused when I see various non Russians caring
so much about the living standard of the Russians. It's so
touching to see people like yourself, loving Russian people more
than Vladimir Putin.

FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care, like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.

But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
TT
2016-10-24 21:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by *skriptis
FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care,
Just like Russia didn't care about Cuba...
Post by *skriptis
like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.
I hear Russian TV is reporting Yemen a lot...
And the PM offered military bases for Russia.
Post by *skriptis
But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
Syria is too close to Russia? On which map...
--
"He did touch my vagina through my underwear"
*skriptis
2016-10-24 22:03:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by TT
Post by *skriptis
FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care,
Just like Russia didn't care about Cuba...
What does Russia does with Cuba?

By Cuba you mean in the 1960s?

You mean when USA installed nukes in Turkey targeting Moscow and
then when USSR did the same on Cuba targeting Washington and we
had "Cuban missile crisis"?

Good one.
Post by TT
Post by *skriptis
like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.
I hear Russian TV is reporting Yemen a lot...
And the PM offered military bases for Russia.
Post by *skriptis
But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
Syria is too close to Russia? On which map...
It's very close.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Nusrat Rizvi
2016-10-28 03:44:33 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:26:31 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
A megalomaniac has taken over Russia, a land that has made no progress
in the last 200 years. This nut job aka Valid Putin is interested in
enlarging Russia and cares little if older Russians are forced to make
a choice between buying food or medicine.
The economy unable to cope with the burden of military spending causes
the value of Ruble to drop everyday. It now stands close to 65 Rubles
to a US Dollar.
He has seen fit to get involved in Syria where majority of its citizen
have been driven out and the major city Aleppo is described by the UN
as a slaughterhouse.
To keep US at bay, Putin now brandishes his nuclear weapons and warns
the Americans of serious consequences if they got involved,
militarily.
Stupidpost. I mean very stupid post. Russia made no progress in
the last 200 years?
Sure it has a few show case cities but by an large it has no industry
it has no economy and it is by far one of the poorest country in
Europe. Overwhelming majority does not have indoor plumbing or
electricity. Longevity and population is dropping at an alarming rate.
PS. Putin cares of Russian people just as much as Hitler cared for
Germans.
I don't know which country you're from, but I guess if Russians
decided to stop supplying international space station, your
country will jump in? Flying to space, piece of cake.
And I am especially amused when I see various non Russians caring
so much about the living standard of the Russians. It's so
touching to see people like yourself, loving Russian people more
than Vladimir Putin.
FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care, like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.
But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
Rubel still keep falling against US Dollars, or do you still deny is.
Last I heard it was 63 to a US Dollars, some economy?
TT
2016-10-28 18:28:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
Putin cares of Russian people just as much as Hitler cared for
Germans.
That should be obvious... Putin even rose to power by false flag
operation against his own countrymen, he bombed Russian buildings and
blamed the Chechens...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Ryazan_incident
--
"He did touch my vagina through my underwear"
*skriptis
2016-10-30 00:26:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by TT
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
Putin cares of Russian people just as much as Hitler cared for
Germans.
That should be obvious... Putin even rose to power by false flag
operation against his own countrymen, he bombed Russian buildings and
blamed the Chechens...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings#Ryazan_incident
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/9/11_conspiracy_theories
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
*skriptis
2016-10-30 00:23:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:26:31 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
A megalomaniac has taken over Russia, a land that has made no progress
in the last 200 years. This nut job aka Valid Putin is interested in
enlarging Russia and cares little if older Russians are forced to make
a choice between buying food or medicine.
The economy unable to cope with the burden of military spending causes
the value of Ruble to drop everyday. It now stands close to 65 Rubles
to a US Dollar.
He has seen fit to get involved in Syria where majority of its citizen
have been driven out and the major city Aleppo is described by the UN
as a slaughterhouse.
To keep US at bay, Putin now brandishes his nuclear weapons and warns
the Americans of serious consequences if they got involved,
militarily.
Stupidpost. I mean very stupid post. Russia made no progress in
the last 200 years?
Sure it has a few show case cities but by an large it has no industry
it has no economy and it is by far one of the poorest country in
Europe. Overwhelming majority does not have indoor plumbing or
electricity.
Well 60% of the world don't have it. And 1.6 million Americans. I
just googled it, there are various data on that issue, but these
are the most pessimistic figures. Russians are certainly
somewhere in between.

If you were smarter and less malicious you'd know the source of
this problem at least in Russia. Communists confiscated luxury
and bourgeois apartments and turned them into couple of smaller
ones to provide accommodation for working class. That means the
original bathrooms in most cases were shared by few families
living in apartments that used to be one. So it's not about not
having a indoor plumbing, or not washing yourself, but rather
about not having your own. That phenomena is most typical for St
Petersburg because that city was the pre-revolutionary centre of
aristocracy, elites, etc, whose apartments were converted.


http://rbth.com/society/2015/01/05/in_it_together_how_communal_apa
rtments_shaped_the_outlook_of_generati_41877.html


Now that we've solved toilets, Russians, who have no industry if
we were to believe you, together with the Americans of course,
are the only ones who can end all human life on Earth or send
humans to space or park an icebreaker on the north pole.
Considering all that I'd be:
a) more respectful
b) reexamine my news provider if I were you. They obviously feed
you with bullshit.




Longevity and population is dropping at an alarming rate.
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
PS. Putin cares of Russian people just as much as Hitler cared for
Germans.
Or like I do for posters on rst like yourself? The ones posting
outright lies.

Do you really think it's the slightest problem for anyone to
google stuff like life expectancy for any country in the world?
You think you are fooling anyone by lying?
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
I don't know which country you're from, but I guess if Russians
decided to stop supplying international space station, your
country will jump in? Flying to space, piece of cake.
And I am especially amused when I see various non Russians caring
so much about the living standard of the Russians. It's so
touching to see people like yourself, loving Russian people more
than Vladimir Putin.
FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care, like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.
But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
Rubel still keep falling against US Dollars, or do you still deny is.
Last I heard it was 63 to a US Dollars, some economy?
Who cares about that. Only bankers and they're not appreciated
anymore. It's the 2016 you fool.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Nusrat Rizvi
2016-10-30 14:21:40 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 02:23:18 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Mon, 24 Oct 2016 11:26:31 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
On Fri, 21 Oct 2016 17:13:49 +0200 (CEST), *skriptis
Post by *skriptis
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
And why wouldn't Russia and USA be on collision course after what Russia
is doing?
And that is exactly what?
A megalomaniac has taken over Russia, a land that has made no progress
in the last 200 years. This nut job aka Valid Putin is interested in
enlarging Russia and cares little if older Russians are forced to make
a choice between buying food or medicine.
The economy unable to cope with the burden of military spending causes
the value of Ruble to drop everyday. It now stands close to 65 Rubles
to a US Dollar.
He has seen fit to get involved in Syria where majority of its citizen
have been driven out and the major city Aleppo is described by the UN
as a slaughterhouse.
To keep US at bay, Putin now brandishes his nuclear weapons and warns
the Americans of serious consequences if they got involved,
militarily.
Stupidpost. I mean very stupid post. Russia made no progress in
the last 200 years?
Sure it has a few show case cities but by an large it has no industry
it has no economy and it is by far one of the poorest country in
Europe. Overwhelming majority does not have indoor plumbing or
electricity.
Well 60% of the world don't have it. And 1.6 million Americans. I
just googled it, there are various data on that issue, but these
are the most pessimistic figures. Russians are certainly
somewhere in between.
We are not talking about the whole world but only Russia, which
remains far too backward when compared with any country in Western
Europe.
1.2 Million American without plumbing is nothing compared with the
other 380 millions who have all the creature comforts poor Russians
can only dream of. BTW, the 1.6 millions are folks who live in
hinterland far away from civilized world of modern convinces, like
schools, hospitals, road etc. But such is there choice.
Post by *skriptis
If you were smarter and less malicious you'd know the source of
this problem at least in Russia. Communists confiscated luxury
and bourgeois apartments and turned them into couple of smaller
ones to provide accommodation for working class. That means the
original bathrooms in most cases were shared by few families
living in apartments that used to be one. So it's not about not
having a indoor plumbing, or not washing yourself, but rather
about not having your own. That phenomena is most typical for St
Petersburg because that city was the pre-revolutionary centre of
aristocracy, elites, etc, whose apartments were converted.
http://rbth.com/society/2015/01/05/in_it_together_how_communal_apa
rtments_shaped_the_outlook_of_generati_41877.html
Now that we've solved toilets, Russians, who have no industry if
we were to believe you, together with the Americans of course,
are the only ones who can end all human life on Earth or send
humans to space or park an icebreaker on the north pole.
a) more respectful
b) reexamine my news provider if I were you. They obviously feed
you with bullshit.
If a nation uses all its resources on building weapons even nuclear
devices, that does not show signs of modernity. Look at impoverished
Pakistan or North Korea, both are now members of nuclear club.
Post by *skriptis
Longevity and population is dropping at an alarming rate.
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
PS. Putin cares of Russian people just as much as Hitler cared for
Germans.
Or like I do for posters on rst like yourself? The ones posting
outright lies.
Do you really think it's the slightest problem for anyone to
google stuff like life expectancy for any country in the world?
You think you are fooling anyone by lying?
In this department US is close behind Japan, and if you remove the
black citizens, it may yet be higher. Russia is not doing well here,
and as I mentioned the older Russian are suffering the most.
Post by *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
I don't know which country you're from, but I guess if Russians
decided to stop supplying international space station, your
country will jump in? Flying to space, piece of cake.
Better to show the world you are most advance country even when the
whole world know you have no economy.
Post by *skriptis
Post by Nusrat Rizvi
And I am especially amused when I see various non Russians caring
so much about the living standard of the Russians. It's so
touching to see people like yourself, loving Russian people more
than Vladimir Putin.
FYI if USA were supporting jihadists in Mexico be sure Putin
wouldn't care, like he doesn't care what's going out in Yemen
right now where Saudi Arabia is conducting aggression against a
sovereign state.
But a jihadists playground and stateless territory that would
emerge after secular Syria is destroyed, like it happened with
Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya is something that's too close and too
dangerous for Russia so it won't be allowed.
Rubel still keep falling against US Dollars, or do you still deny is.
Last I heard it was 63 to a US Dollars, some economy?
Who cares about that. Only bankers and they're not appreciated
anymore. It's the 2016 you fool.
This argument beats all others, blame your failures on the bankers. At
least for now you can tell the Russian why they are so poor, cause the
Russians have drained their treasury fighting the Islamic Terrorists
even when they were fighting local tyrants like Hafiz Al Assad and his
kin,
TT
2016-11-02 12:04:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
Can you prove us that you are Chinese and not a Russian troll?

Samantha Bee btw did interesting insert on paid Russki trolls...
--
"He did touch my vagina through my underwear"
*skriptis
2016-11-02 14:19:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by TT
Post by lo yeeOn
If you believe in David Singer's analysis, then the American
electorate is voting for a collision course between Hillary - the next
White House occupant - and Russia's Putin.
Can you prove us that you are Chinese and not a Russian troll?
Samantha Bee btw did interesting insert on paid Russki trolls...
Trolls post for fun. Those you describe are called journalists.
--
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Loading...